Kook Aid – The Battle – Part 4

This is a follow-up to my earlier posts.

In Part 3, Spencer posted a link to a video he wanted me to watch. Subsequently, he posted that video directly to his wall. Here’s the final thread.

Aside: it looks like this thread just won’t die. I’ll edit with any future discussion if it’s worthwhile.

Spencer Hughes - For the Reality Challenged folks out there who are still drinking the EARTH IS ENDING nonsense...THESE are the people who should get an Oscar, not Gore.

David - gore does deserve an oscar, but it should be for acting like he cares about the world

Spencer Hughes - NICE one, David! HAHA.

John - A liberal that loves Al Gore is a liberal that loves censoring rock and rap music lyrics ala his wife Tipper.

Sarah - I did a report on Tipper and censorship in high school. Not a lot of people remember her rampage on the music industry.

Mario - Good one David. Sarah, I remember how the likes of Frank Zappa and Dee Snyder made a monkey out of Tipper in the hallowed halls of Congress when the censorship trial was going on.

Sarah - I do too. *sigh* Those were the days.

Matthew Orlando - So, just finished watching the video as promised.

A large portion of it was devoted to the political issues which, as I've said in other threads, should be addressed entirely separately from the science. Treating them as the same issue only confuses matters and makes it harder for people to differentiate rhetoric from reality.

However, the video did make some specific claims. If you aren't averse to exposing yourself to an opposing point of view, there are several resources which attempt to refute the claims. E.g. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=seven-answers-to-climate-contrarian-nonsense

Sarah - *yawn* I ALREADY READ THAT. So now what? I still don't agree with you and??? Let it go, dude.

Matthew Orlando - So now i can't even respond to the video that I was urged to watch, without getting a snide remark? And you wonder why I got defensive earlier? Why are you taking this so personally?

I get that you've read it. I get that you don't agree. I don't get why you would try to keep me from sharing my opinion with others... I haven't made a single comment to this particular post. This post might be something someone sees without ever looking at the other ones. It was a more appropriate place to put my direct response to the video, which you and Spencer insisted I watch.

Sarah - Hey Matthew...you are so missing the point. No one is trying to keep you from sharing your opinion. What I am saying is that, much like if you were a guest at our house for dinner, I would expect that you would have manners enough to recognize that once you start name calling, the argument is over. (If you were at my dinner table and called my husband and me "denialists" you would be asked to leave.) Spout your opinions on YOUR facebook page. Healthy debate is welcome, but when you reach a stalemate, the appropriate thing to do is zip your lip, not whine about how you are being censored.

And Matthew...the two posts go hand in hand. It is completely irrelevant WHERE you respond. It is the same discussion.

Matthew Orlando - I'm sorry for insulting him/you with my "denialists" remark. I honestly didn't think it was any worse than the swarm of "kook-aid" comments that were directed at me. If that's what this was about, then yes I did miss the point and I'm certainly happy moving on

Aside: At this point, Sarah (who happens to be Spencer’s Wife) responded to the above message with a snide remark. She completely missed the fact that I was apologizing for doing the thing that originally upset her.

In the same post, she also stated that none of the “kook-aid” comments were directed towards me personally. Part 1 would beg to differ. As I was writing my next post below, she deleted the post. I assume she realized just how wrong she was. In fairness, I removed the parts of my response which shot her down for that transgression.

Sarah - OMG you are from Sebastopol. I should have read your profile and saved myself a lot of aggravation. Do you stand on the street corner on Main St and 116 on Friday too?

Matthew Orlando - I don't understand where you're coming from. I was being totally sincere when I apologized for insulting you. I really did miss the point.

And that Sebastopol comment? Talk about prejudice... Who's the one not moving on now? I don't even live there. In fact, my job isn't even "in" sebastopol. It's about 10 minutes north, but the Post office still calls it that.

Sarah - Matthew. I was raised in Sebastopol. I am a fifth generation Sonoma County resident. Berkeley transplants and moral fascists drove me out of my home town. I couldn't take living there anymore because of the mental illness being spewed at my children in a SCHOOL I ATTENDED as a child. My 10 year old came home crying because some ponytailed granola chomper told him that if I didn't stop driving my Expedition, he wouldn't live to see 20 years of age. Make peace? HELL NO. Take your Sky is falling crap somewhere else. It is CERTAINLY not welcome here.

Matthew Orlando - I agree about sebastopol. It's full of kooks. Did you know sebastopol schools have the lowest rates of childhood vaccination in the country?

"Make peace? HELL NO. Take your Sky is falling crap somewhere else. It is CERTAINLY not welcome here."

Wow... just . wow...

Elie - I became a Prince fan because of Tipper. It was because of the Dirty Mind album that we now have those stickers she fought for.

Sarah - Beat it, dude.

John - I forgot another reason why "Global Warming", "Global Climate Change" etc has been grasped on either side by both Conservatives and Liberals (from as high up as the parties and leaders themselves by way of their respective lobbyists) is to make sure that the people of the USA remain divided. Why is it in their parties best interest? Votes. But most importantly - diversion. If we are attacking each other over science (which I am willing to bet about 99% of us here REALLY understand) then the bad guys win. Trust me, this is diversion from noticing what is really going on in the background. So I plead with both Sarah and Matthew - agree to disagree! We are all here because Spencer runs one of the best radio shows out there and fosters great debate! (By the way - I think both Sarah and Matthew are great.)

John - Whoops! I should have said 99% of us REALLY DON'T understand! haha

John - By the way this whole topic proves again that party or "Conservative vs. Liberal" loyalty decides what people's opinions are. The last conspiracy that proved this was the Iraq war. Time to think outside of the boxes that have been set up for us all to think inside of.

Elie - Well said John.

Sarah - My being here has relatively little to do with Spencer's show, actually. I have been telling Matthew that he isn't going to convince me in seeing things "his way." He doesn't like that answer. I am not asking him to change his mind like he is asking everyone else here to do.

Sarah - John-I TOTALLY disagree. My stance on global warming has nothing to do with my political affiliation. If that were the case, then by definition I would be against gay marriage and pro-life. Who is thinking inside the box?

Matthew Orlando - "My being here has relatively little to do with Spencer's show, actually. I have been telling Matthew that he isn't going to convince me in seeing things "his way." He doesn't like that answer. I am not asking him to change his mind like he is asking everyone else here to do."

Wow... just . wow...

Obviously you haven't read even half of the posts I've written on the topic.

" So I plead with both Sarah and Matthew - agree to disagree! "

Tried that. Here's what happened:

"Make peace? HELL NO. Take your Sky is falling crap somewhere else. It is CERTAINLY not welcome here."

Sarah - Matthew...I have only read your posts in this thread and the other one from today. Have you not been trying to change our minds? Or was that just something I read into your words? I could spend time quoting you, but I only have 2 minutes between contracts at work...and I would rather grab a cup of coffee.

Wow just wow? FAR OUT, MAN... Hey, I hear that they are having a wicked folk song jam in the square by Whole Foods. I can't even drive through Sebastopol anymore because of you...so yeah. I am hostile.

Matthew Orlando - Hmm, let's see... Quoting myself:

"I really don't care if you come away from it with a changed mind, but it's always better to expose yourself to more information whether you agree with it or not. This is why I read blogs and listen to radio shows from all different political persuasions. I'm confident that the decisions I make and the conclusions I reach are based on the broadest set of facts at my disposal. If you do the same, and reach different conclusions, then I'm perfectly happy to agree to disagree."

And that's a sentiment I've repeated several times over the past few hours.

"Wow just wow? FAR OUT, MAN... Hey, I hear that they are having a wicked folk song jam in the square by Whole Foods. I can't even drive through Sebastopol anymore because of you...so yeah. I am hostile."

Oh goodie! An ad hominem! Haven't seen one of those in a while. *rolleyes*

Lora - Sarah, you're a hoot! You go girl! Bet you keep Spencer on his toes... :) I have never believed in the global warming stuff... I'm glad Climategate is happening, in fact. I love when the truth comes out. I am a conservative traditionalist but I don't need a government party to tell me how or what I think. I read all sides and come up with conclusions on my own. Mr. Gore has found a way to make a lot of money. Interesting that he cancelled his appearance in Copenhagen - the man who won an oscar for "An Inconvenient Truth". "Climategate" is the inconvenient truth now, isn't it...

Sarah - Oh deep, man...you know Latin, man....Far out.

Matthew Orlando - I love how you keep avoiding the fact that you've displayed absolutely no willingness to reach some sort of middle ground, even if it's making peace with the fact that we disagree. This is making great blog fodder. Keep up the good work =)

Matthew Orlando - Republicans and peace just don't mix, i guess.

Sarah - I am no republican. And who says we HAVE to reach a middle ground? Sometimes there ISN'T a middle ground. Why are you HERE? I am not avoiding anything. I have stated PLAINLY that I don't want to make peace with you. Let me get as CLEAR as I can: VAPORIZE.

Sarah - Wait...before you say it...WOW. JUST WOW. Right?

Matthew Orlando - How'd you guess? ;)

Sarah - Because I am smart. I will turn this over to my husband now.

Spencer Hughes - Matthew, dude...why are you here? HONESTLY. Why? You ridicule my view on ghosts (although they ARE real...I have several sharing my house with us)...you think I am a misinformed on global warming (although YOU apparently don't watch anything but the mainstream channels, who are NOT reporting what people are calling THE BIGGEST shame on the scientific community perhaps EVER). If my page is BLOG FODDER for you, you can take a hike. My page is not a punching bag for you. Do you see why I have always said my page is for like minded people I would probably hang out with in real life, over a pizza and a beer? Am I really someone who you'd want to have dinner with? Other than to ARGUE with? You are snarky and self righteous and I am frankly getting bored of it all.

Sarah - I didn't know about the ridicule of the ghost stuff. His profile says Ignostic...is that a cross between agnostic and ignorant? What exactly does this yahoo offer people here exactly? What contribution does he make? Maybe he should focus on making this a good day for the Alliance instead of buzzing like an obnoxious mosquito around everyone's heads.

Sarah - I GET IT! WOW just WOW means World of Warcraft just World of Warcraft. God I am slow.

Matthew Orlando - Feel free to unfriend me if you feel that way. I've always enjoyed your show, and I know we agree on a lot of issues. I also thought your followers would have a bit more class than to begin throwing rampant insults around when someone disagrees with them.

As I've said before, any hostility in my responses is only a reaction. Where I've misunderstood things, I've apologized. I've attempted to make peace, but certain people in the discussion can't seem to get over petty squabbles. I have no hostility towards the opposing view, I have hostility towards the assumptions made about me, the gross prejudice, and the dismissiveness.

None of this discussion has centered around the science, which is all I wanted to put forward in the first place. If you really can't be bothered to see the differences among science (pro- or anti-global warming), politics (pro- or anti-regulation), and personal interaction (pro- or anti-agree-to-disagree), then I have nothing more to say.

Sarah - Sweetheart, I am not a listener. I am his wife. YOU are making good blog fodder. Please continue...and I do believe you cast the first insult? Am I wrong? Why don't you save Spencer the trouble of unfriending you and just disappear?

Sarah - Sorry...I am not a "follower." My mistake.

Matthew Orlando - I HAD disappeared two hours ago and then you brought me back into the discussion with

"My being here has relatively little to do with Spencer's show, actually. I have been telling Matthew that he isn't going to convince me in seeing things "his way." He doesn't like that answer. I am not asking him to change his mind like he is asking everyone else here to do"

And yes, I know you're his wife. You're taking all of this way to personally for anyone without an emotional attachment.

Trucker - YEEEAAAAAA... I KNEW IT WAS ALLLL B.S.

Sarah - I have a very emotional attachment to the decay of my hometown brought on by the "green party" transplants and propagandists. It used to be a quiet, tranquil apple farming community until it became the mecca of liberalist mental illness. You are one of the people I blame for not being able to give my children the beautiful childhood I had growing up there. It is VERY personal. How long have you lived there, Matthew? I mean, 10 miles NORTH of there? Let me guess. Occidental? Graton? I am the first generation in my family NOT to live there... I would not allow my children to be exposed to your fear mongering and misinformation any more that I would let them play with fire.

I visit often. Let's meet over some organic free trade chai at Hardcore Coffee on Bloomfield and Hwy 116...which used to be FRANK'S CORNER...I knew Frank. Did you? My treat.

Sarah - P.S. My mom is calling me from Sebastopol. She asks if you have been outside today...cuz she is freezing her ass off. Global warming indeed.

Matthew Orlando - Quoting myself:

"I have no hostility towards the opposing view, I have hostility towards the assumptions made about me, the gross prejudice, and the dismissiveness."

Here you go again on another one of your prejudicial rants about Sebastopolians.

First off, as I said, I don't live in sebastopol, I WORK near sebastopol. If you absolutely must know, I live in Santa Rosa (not that it should matter).

Second, sebastopol has been that way my entire life. I certainly wasn't a contributing factor.

So, what exactly is your point?

Matthew Orlando - "P.S. My mom is calling me from Sebastopol. She asks if you have been outside today...cuz she is freezing her ass off. Global warming indeed."

You've heard of Winter, haven't you?

Global warming isn't about "OMG Its soooooo hot today!!!!." It's about "The average surface temperature over the last hundred years has experienced a statistically significant increase."

Spencer Hughes - Of about ONE degree, Matthew. OH NO!!!! WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!! Matthew. I am officially DONE with this thread.

Yamasaki - Matt, just a question........Why is global warming such an issue to you? Your profile says you are a member of the "Come Out as an Atheist Group" as an atheist dont you also believe that the world ends in 1103 days? And no I'm not an Atheist, I'm a proud and practicing Christian who studies religion.

Sarah - My point is you would not be welcome in our home, so I don't believe you are welcome here. I have a funny feeling you are about to go bye bye, Matthew. And um...yeah. Heard of winter...it's like...when things get all COLD and stuff, right, man? Far out. Say goodnight, Matthew.

Matthew Orlando - Yamasaki: you do realize all the word "atheist" means is that I don't believe in god, right? It says absolutely nothing about whatever else I may or may not believe...

Matthew Orlando - Goodnight, Matthew.